Ideas

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Kyran
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Re: Ideas

Postby Kyran » Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:12 pm

Interestingly enough, it looks like BicchusDicchus also plays Skulltag. What is it about Stratagus that attracts Doom players?
04:27 jim4 why haven't you added wc1 support? this project sucks. i'm only going to use freecraft
05:06 jim4 finished wc1 support yet? i've been waiting for 6 years
05:10 jim4 new things scare me
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Big Daddy
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Re: Ideas

Postby Big Daddy » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:22 pm

Woah both Big Daddy AND Bicchus Dicchus play Doom and Warcraft 2! While I am in no way stating that these two individuals are one and the same, I must note, however, that Bicchus Dicchus sounds like he is quite handsome.

I love how far Doom has come since the 90's. I just wish I could say the same for Warcraft 2.

Or Dune. That was fun shit. Not Dune 2! Dune.

Big Daddy
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Kyran
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Re: Ideas

Postby Kyran » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:57 pm

So far we've got BD1, BD2, cybermind, and myself on that list. Perhaps soon b_o will come out of the closet.

I've also noticed that Doom attracts furries... Just wait, soon we'll have Furgus.
04:27 jim4 why haven't you added wc1 support? this project sucks. i'm only going to use freecraft
05:06 jim4 finished wc1 support yet? i've been waiting for 6 years
05:10 jim4 new things scare me
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b_o
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Re: Ideas

Postby b_o » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:49 pm

huh? I used to make doom mods, until war2 came out.. if it wasn't for doom, I probably wouldn't be into game development or game modding..
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Big Daddy
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Re: Ideas

Postby Big Daddy » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:02 am

This is going off track

I recommend we make a plan to modernize Stratagus, including but not limited to:

-Getting the project back on Sourceforge, where people are more likely to stumble upon it
--> May have to revert to older code, perhaps ~2.2.5 or 4. This Pali guy who moved the project to Launchpad, has been developing Stratagus exclusively for Maemo, a Linux mobile phone distribution, and has completely disregarded any notion of actual testing on Windows. Most of the recent source code has become unusable for this reason alone.

-Documenting the engine, including putting comments within the source files themselves, and detailed guides/wiki for information on how the spaghetti code works. Wargus, Wartool, BoS, etc, after the core documentation

-Advertising.
---->Wargus packaged with War2 Demo. All the graphics are there, sans expansion tileset; Wartool can be fixed to accomodate the demo. Combined with a centralized server database ala Doom Connector, and we'd have something to show off the project, without the pain-in-the-anus install process. We can then post information and links on forums such as, say, 4chan, and other such communities.

-Fixing the hate culture embedded in most devs for Stratagus.
--->I've noticed subtle and not-too-subtle displays of hostility towards Windows and it's users in general. These are serious social problems that occur with hardcore Linux fanboys... The kind of person who would go out of their way to type Microsoft's initials as "M$".
As long as the culture doesn't accomodate to the mainstream, Stratagus will always be stuck in the closet.

-Accumulation of Warcraft 2 mods.
---> More of a Wargus thing really. But the more TCs, puds, and graphic patches that we recover from the Old Days, the more Optional Content we can organize and fit into the game. New Tilesets are particularily attractive.
---> Discussion of various game reverse-engineering methods, including resource ripping for games similar to War2 (Warwind, WarDiary, etc...)
---> Concepts from post-War2 games to be considered for assimilation into Wargus. This has already been done with features from Starcraft such as unit queues, squad saving, and waypoint. Imagine if we supported the script system used in Starcraft maps. It would be that much easier for a SC mapmaker to make a map in Wargus, and the community that would sping up around Warcraft 2 "Use Map Settings" Trigger maps.. Well, it would be roots in mah boots.

Canst thou dig it?
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Kyran
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Re: Ideas

Postby Kyran » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:26 pm

Big Daddy wrote:--> May have to revert to older code, perhaps ~2.2.5 or 4.
I think the problem with 2.2.6 was that it just wasn't tested. We should have had a few release candidates to get things sorted.
Big Daddy wrote:-Documenting the engine, including putting comments within the source files themselves, and detailed guides/wiki for information on how the spaghetti code works. Wargus, Wartool, BoS, etc, after the core documentation
Definitely the way to go.
Big Daddy wrote:Wargus packaged with War2 Demo. All the graphics are there, sans expansion tileset; Wartool can be fixed to accomodate the demo.
Don't know about packaging Wargus with the demo, perhaps having the install give the option to download and extract the demo assets automatically would be a better way to go.
Big Daddy wrote:Combined with a centralized server database ala Doom Connector
I had a look a while ago at the possibility of a Stratagus plugin for Doom Connector. Didn't find any information on Doom Connector plugins.
Big Daddy wrote:As long as the culture doesn't accomodate to the mainstream, Stratagus will always be stuck in the closet.
One thing I hate about the current arrangement is the annoying installation process. There should be just one Wargus installer which includes both 32 and 64 bit binaries.
Big Daddy wrote:-Accumulation of Warcraft 2 mods.
---> More of a Wargus thing really. But the more TCs, puds, and graphic patches that we recover from the Old Days, the more Optional Content we can organize and fit into the game. New Tilesets are particularily attractive.
Yeah, an extras mod would be cool. One thing I reckon would be good to have would be to have a directory (such as scripts/addon) which Stratagus automatically loads addon script files from.
Big Daddy wrote:Imagine if we supported the script system used in Starcraft maps. It would be that much easier for a SC mapmaker to make a map in Wargus, and the community that would sping up around Warcraft 2 "Use Map Settings" Trigger maps.
The idea of Starcraft-like scripting is what got me into BOS Wars. Being able to redefine units and mess with everything inside the map file itself was awesome! Unfortunately the devs didn't share my enthusiasm for making custom game modes, or defining units like in Starcraft.

What I think would be the go in this regards is:

Map Folder (move each map into its own folder, like in BOS Wars)
--> map.sms
--> map.smp
--> definitions.lua (lua script run before map.sms but after map.smp)
--> settings.lua (deals with custom game options for when starting the map, stuff like unit layout, winning conditions, etc)
--> scripts.lua (scripts for when playing the map)
--> conclusion.lua (scripts for when the match is over, the point here is to undo all the changes in definitions.lua)

Of course there are heaps of functions I'd like to see implemented to improve scripting. Being able to identify and manipulate an individual unit for example, or being able specifically tell the AI the location to attack (instead of just attack closest enemy).
04:27 jim4 why haven't you added wc1 support? this project sucks. i'm only going to use freecraft
05:06 jim4 finished wc1 support yet? i've been waiting for 6 years
05:10 jim4 new things scare me
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jarod42
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Re: Ideas

Postby jarod42 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:21 am

we are no many stratagus developper, and we lack of tests :-/

have default scripts should be a good idea, but focus on wargus maybe problematic.
maybe those from aleona Tales...

dvcs make easier for people to contribute.
most stratagus relative project on stratagus are "dead" with no valid admin
I don't think sourceforge is the solution against launchpad.


stratagus have a lot of spaghetti code :-/
I try to clean up thing when possible.
beware with code because we have also "bad" comment :/

for mod, I worked on a menu to select the game in stratagus (it is generic, it is locally mainly for wargus, stargus)
(see main-menu branch)

lot of stuff like the map need to be reworked.
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Big Daddy
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Re: Ideas

Postby Big Daddy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:44 am

I like this guy. Jarod's a good guy.

Jarod, what are DVCs? Distributed Version Control?

Kyran, I don't mean coding a plugin for DC for Stratagus. It's been years since I last spoke with DC's dev, and doubt I could find him again
What I meant more was a central list.. Something like this:

1) Create game server - The new game server sends a packet to a central Stratagus server.
2) Stratagus main server adds the IP address of the new game server to a simple ServeLists.txt
3) User is looking for a server. He clicks "Refresh List". This sends a request to Stratagus main server to download ServeLists.txt
4) ServeLists.txt is downloaded and interpretted into the client, producing a list of current servers.

An in-game IRC client can be used if pre-game chatting, like Battlenet, is neccessary.. It would connect to the FreeNode Stratagus channel.

What say thee?

Big Daddy
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jarod42
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Re: Ideas

Postby jarod42 » Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:42 pm

> Jarod, what are DVCS? Distributed Version Control?

Distributed Version Control System.
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Big Daddy
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Re: Ideas

Postby Big Daddy » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:58 am

Ok. So.

Yeah, the documentation i the source code is pretty shitty.

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