WIP Suggestions

WIP aims to Wargus, while maintaining the game's ambience and gameplay experience.
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Andrettin
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Re: WIP Suggestions

Postby Andrettin » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:36 pm

b_o wrote:Isn't unholy armor supposed to cause some damage to the unit it's cast on?
It should, but I don't recall by how much, so that's why I haven't changed that yet.
Spiders/scorpions should be faster.
I looked for speed information for them for WC1 but couldn't find it, that's why I made them speed 8, since it seemed to fit better to me. Were they faster in WC1?
You could include wc2 cheat codes.
Many of the WC2 were already in Wargus - the only ones that weren't (like tigerlily and the research upgrades), I couldn't find a way to implement, either.
When I use the editor to add an orc lumber mill, I'm not able to see spear upgrade options.
That is because the spear upgrades are not active by default, but if they are allowed in the scenario, then they would appear in the lumber mill.
What I'd really like to see is the ability to access all of the wc1 stuff in any map with just a peasant/peon.
so a peon could build both an orc and troll lumber mill, etc. and spearmen should be buildable at a barracks if you have either of those lumber mills. So if you want to, you can build trolls and spearmen side by side. The spearmen should cost less than the trolls obviously. Same scenario with warlocks/necrolytes. I'd like to be able to build them along side deathknights and ogres. I don't like the 'either/or' scenario as much as the 'everythings available' scenario. If limitations are needed in the campaign it would be nice to only have the limitations in those campaign maps rather than as the default for non-campaign maps.
I would also like to make those units more present in gameplay, but I have some concerns about it as well. In my opinion, it would be better to not have options which seem superfluous, like two archer-like units. There is also the issue of having to rewrite the AI to handle certain changes. And a last issue is the amount of buttons we can have - in order to preserve the option of using the 640x480 resolution, it is necessary to have at max 9 buttons per unit, which limits the amount of options we could add.

One idea (which I believe I have mentioned previously) is to have the Troll Lumber Mill become an upgrade of the Orc Lumber Mill (if troll axethrowers are available, and they are better at ranged combat than orcs, then it makes sense that orcs would specialize in other functions in battle, like being infantry), similar to how Knights upgrade to Paladins with a research. The Orc Spearman could be then be made weaker to fit in with that idea.

Something similar could also be done for the Death Knight - it could become an upgrade for the Necrolyte, which would provide for the possibility of the expansion of their spell list.

As for the Warlocks, they could be made trainable at the Altar of Storms, and their spells would be researched there, too (since the Altar of Storms is a warlock-magic-building, according to the WC2 manual, IIRC).
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b_o
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Re: WIP Suggestions

Postby b_o » Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:19 am

Andrettin wrote:
b_o wrote:Isn't unholy armor supposed to cause some damage to the unit it's cast on?
It should, but I don't recall by how much, so that's why I haven't changed that yet.
In wc1 it cuts HP by 50% so it would never bring them to zero, but it could bring them close.
Andrettin wrote:
Spiders/scorpions should be faster.
I looked for speed information for them for WC1 but couldn't find it, that's why I made them speed 8, since it seemed to fit better to me. Were they faster in WC1?
They were faster than regular wolf riders, but the same speed as with upgraded wolves. They also had less HP than warlocks and could be killed by 4 spear hits
Andrettin wrote:
You could include wc2 cheat codes.
Many of the WC2 were already in Wargus - the only ones that weren't (like tigerlily and the research upgrades), I couldn't find a way to implement, either.
WC1 codes would be nice as well. and if someone enters an unsupported wc1/wc2 code, it could give a message listing the alternative.
Andrettin wrote:
When I use the editor to add an orc lumber mill, I'm not able to see spear upgrade options.
That is because the spear upgrades are not active by default, but if they are allowed in the scenario, then they would appear in the lumber mill.
That reminds me of something else I noticed. When I start wargus and open a custom map, the spells are not researched, but if I open a campaign map where the spells are researched and then exit to the menu and start the same custom map as before, the spell research matches the research of the last campaign level I accessed.
Andrettin wrote:I would also like to make those units more present in gameplay, but I have some concerns about it as well. In my opinion, it would be better to not have options which seem superfluous, like two archer-like units. There is also the issue of having to rewrite the AI to handle certain changes. And a last issue is the amount of buttons we can have - in order to preserve the option of using the 640x480 resolution, it is necessary to have at max 9 buttons per unit, which limits the amount of options we could add.
The number of buttons could be expanded in the same way that peasants have basic and advanced building buttons. there could be basic and advanced spells. Couldn't the AI just be modified slightly to accommodate? the AI wouldn't have to use everything, I'm just saying it would be nice for users to have access to more options. I would think that two archers wouldn't be any more superfluous than footmen along side knights, some could have other kinds of upgrades.
Andrettin wrote:One idea (which I believe I have mentioned previously) is to have the Troll Lumber Mill become an upgrade of the Orc Lumber Mill (if troll axethrowers are available, and they are better at ranged combat than orcs, then it makes sense that orcs would specialize in other functions in battle, like being infantry), similar to how Knights upgrade to Paladins with a research. The Orc Spearman could be then be made weaker to fit in with that idea.
So we would need a graphic changing the orc mill into the troll one? that doesn't seem a very smooth transition. Also, orcs probably shouldn't turn into trolls the way knights turn into paladins.
Andrettin wrote:Something similar could also be done for the Death Knight - it could become an upgrade for the Necrolyte, which would provide for the possibility of the expansion of their spell list.
It could happen after death either from the enemy or from your own forces, after researching an advanced raise dead spell
Andrettin wrote:As for the Warlocks, they could be made trainable at the Altar of Storms, and their spells would be researched there, too (since the Altar of Storms is a warlock-magic-building, according to the WC2 manual, IIRC).
That seems reasonable.

Here's some other alpha icons that might be usable as something:
icons.png
icons
icons.png (6.47 KiB) Viewed 2581 times
Cannon tower upgrades? fortification upgrade to add armor points to buildings? oil platform upgrade to retrieve more oil?
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b_o
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Re: WIP Suggestions

Postby b_o » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:58 am

Goblin shaman:
gobsg.png
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gobs.png
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improved raise dead button?:
lich.png
lich.png (1.82 KiB) Viewed 2567 times
Last edited by b_o on Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kargath
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Re: WIP Suggestions

Postby Kargath » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:25 am

In the Warcraft 3 TC mod for Starcraft there is a dwarven rifleman, those cannon's alpha icons would fit well for that unit if that will be implemented.
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b_o
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Re: WIP Suggestions

Postby b_o » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:03 am

Has it already been mentioned that the boats and boat death animations still need swamp tileset colors for water?
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DinkyDyeAussie
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Re: WIP Suggestions

Postby DinkyDyeAussie » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:41 am

Indeed the palette/colour issue of vessels in the "Orc Swamp" Tileset, need to be addressed. Just played some Warcraft 2 using dosbox to see if what you are saying b_o is true, and yes, the oil patches and wake animations against the ships hulls and oil derrick legs are the same colour as the water.
war2_011.png
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war2_012.png
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war2_013.png
war2_013.png (54.37 KiB) Viewed 2557 times
Maybe it's a pallete change, or maybe there's artwork that wargus has not extracted from the original Warcraft 2 files. I know I think that the blue wake and blue oil patches look totally out of place in wargus.


**EDIT**

Just played the same map "Oil is the Key" in wargus, and the oil patch is the proper color, as is the oil platform. BUT, the only sea going vessel that has the proper wake colouring for both races is the giant sea turtle and the submerine, every other vessel has blue wake in the swampy water, which stands out like gorilla nuts.
screen02.png
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Reason for this is that the submerine and turtle both have grapics files in "..\graphics\tilesets\swamp\**race**\units folder, with the colouring for the water that surrounds the vessel, which override the default graphic for that unit. No other tilesets folder has a specific units graphics folder except the wasteland one, as the winter and summer tileset share the default subermine/turtle graphics. All other tilesets just the building graphics folder. I'm hoping there's some graphics that haven't been extracted yet that we've missed and it's not going to have to be a manual labour thing of having to touch up the existing ones to match the swamp tileset.
Last edited by DinkyDyeAussie on Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Kyran
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Re: WIP Suggestions

Postby Kyran » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:55 am

b_o wrote:That reminds me of something else I noticed. When I start wargus and open a custom map, the spells are not researched, but if I open a campaign map where the spells are researched and then exit to the menu and start the same custom map as before, the spell research matches the research of the last campaign level I accessed.
That's because custom tech trees aren't purged when exiting a campaign map.
04:27 jim4 why haven't you added wc1 support? this project sucks. i'm only going to use freecraft
05:06 jim4 finished wc1 support yet? i've been waiting for 6 years
05:10 jim4 new things scare me
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b_o
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Re: WIP Suggestions

Postby b_o » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:03 pm

DinkyDyeAussie wrote:Just played the same map "Oil is the Key" in wargus, and the oil patch is the proper color, as is the oil platform. BUT, the only sea going vessel that has the proper wake colouring for both races is the giant sea turtle and the submerine, every other vessel has blue wake in the swampy water, which stands out like gorilla nuts.
The submarine and turtle have the problem when sinking, or I should say , the generic sinking graphic has the problem which also affects the turtle/sub death. War2 contains separate gfx's for swamp turtles/subs/boats. Wasteland is supposed to have it's own sub/turtle gfx's too. summer and winter share the subs/turtles .
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DinkyDyeAussie
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Re: WIP Suggestions

Postby DinkyDyeAussie » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:39 pm

That's what I thought :/ Hmmm... So does that mean that the wargus extraction tool will need to be updated again in order to be able to extract these graphical assests?
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b_o
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Re: WIP Suggestions

Postby b_o » Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:13 am

For some reason I was able to load a transport into a transport. that seems like it should be fixed.

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