WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

WIP aims to Wargus, while maintaining the game's ambience and gameplay experience.
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b_o
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Re: WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

Postby b_o » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:00 am

What version of wargus are you developing with? I think I need to reinstall the latest version, if I can find it, as I'm not able to run this WIP with my old wargus install. I don't remember if my old wargus install was working to begin with, so the non-functionality of the WIP on my my system is probably my fault.
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Andrettin
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Re: WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

Postby Andrettin » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:36 pm

b_o wrote:What version of wargus are you developing with? I think I need to reinstall the latest version, if I can find it, as I'm not able to run this WIP with my old wargus install. I don't remember if my old wargus install was working to begin with, so the non-functionality of the WIP on my my system is probably my fault.
I am using Wargus 2.2.7 (which I got here: https://launchpad.net/wargus). What version do you have?
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Kargath
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Re: WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

Postby Kargath » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:12 am

Great update, I have some suggestions:

if possible, remove the non gameplay tracks from the game (intro music, briefing music etc..)
fix the AI, in some levels it appears to be...INSANE! :shock:
bring back some cheats (for example tigerlily for level jumping)
in some missions spells users don't have their spell researched
in original WC2 flying units didn't harass your flying machines/zeppelins, here they do and is a bit boring to be honest.
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DinkyDyeAussie
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Re: WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

Postby DinkyDyeAussie » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:41 pm

Andrettin you have made a very decent mod to wargus indeed. I just played the Human and Orc war1 demos and they worked great! Really happy you're working on remaking warcraft 1 using warcraft 2 graphics :D Keep it up it rocks!
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Kargath
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Re: WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

Postby Kargath » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:10 am

You've putted Doomhammer because in lore, he was the one who dueled and killed Lothar and that was a killer idea. Unfortunately in Tides of Darkness we control very few heroes and only in an handful of missions. It would be awesome to have:

- Turalyon, Khadgar and Uther in Human14 (they were present in that battle)

- Rend and Maim Blackhand in Orc12 (they were present according to lore) and maybe Human14

- Orgrim Doomhammer in Orc14 (what's more appealing to an orcish warchief to partecipate in the last battle against humans?)

- Zul'Jin in Orc11 (a troll leader like him can't miss the chance to assault the elves of Quel'Thalas) and maybe Orc14 (in ending movie you see lots of trolls ravaging the human castle, and we know Zul'Jin is their leader)

- Killrog Deadeye in xOrc12 (BOTDP) and xHuman06 (here dies, killed by Danath according to lore)

- Mogor the ogre mage in xOrc01



And about lore/gameplay:

- Using dwarven units as footman in missions set in dwarven lands
- Add regeneration and lighter axes upgrades to Zul'Jin
- Black dragons in Beyond The Dark Portal instead of green
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b_o
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Re: WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

Postby b_o » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:46 pm

I like kargaths ideas. The WIP is looking good too. A couple of other things that could be fixed are that the palette or the image seem to be messed up for some of the briefings. also.. in level 1 of the orcs beyond the dark portal campaign, isn't the deathknight supposed to start with touch of death?

Andrettin, if you want to delegate some graphic work to further this WIP, you can let me know what you wanted to implement next, and maybe I can help with some pixel work on GFX's or something?
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Kargath
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Re: WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

Postby Kargath » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:29 pm

I agree with B_O, in many missions magic user units doesn't have their proper spells researched.
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Andrettin
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Re: WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

Postby Andrettin » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:30 pm

Kargath wrote:Great update,
Thanks :)
I have some suggestions:

if possible, remove the non gameplay tracks from the game (intro music, briefing music etc..)
fix the AI, in some levels it appears to be...INSANE! :shock:
bring back some cheats (for example tigerlily for level jumping)
in some missions spells users don't have their spell researched
in original WC2 flying units didn't harass your flying machines/zeppelins, here they do and is a bit boring to be honest.
You mean that non-gameplay tracks are playing during missions?

I agree about the AI, there seem to be a lot of early rushes during the missions. Do you have any specific idea in mind to changing it?

In regards to the cheats, I think that only ones missing are "tigerlily", the upgrade ones, "make it so" and "hatchet". The latter two are already implemented in Wargus, but don't work for some reason. The upgrade ones are, as far as I know, not possible to implement without .exe modifications, because there isn't a way to grant upgrades during gameplay. Tigerlily I tried implementing, but without much success.

The absent spells issue is not hard to fix, and I aim to have that done by the next version of WIP.

I agree about the harassing of flying machines/zeppelins (and archers and destroyers follow them too, something which they didn't in WC2, they only fired as they passed through), but I'm afraid that this would require .exe changes.
DinkyDyeAussie wrote:Andrettin you have made a very decent mod to wargus indeed. I just played the Human and Orc war1 demos and they worked great! Really happy you're working on remaking warcraft 1 using warcraft 2 graphics :D Keep it up it rocks!
Thanks! :)
Kargath wrote:You've putted Doomhammer because in lore, he was the one who dueled and killed Lothar and that was a killer idea. Unfortunately in Tides of Darkness we control very few heroes and only in an handful of missions. It would be awesome to have:

- Turalyon, Khadgar and Uther in Human14 (they were present in that battle)

- Rend and Maim Blackhand in Orc12 (they were present according to lore) and maybe Human14

- Orgrim Doomhammer in Orc14 (what's more appealing to an orcish warchief to partecipate in the last battle against humans?)

- Zul'Jin in Orc11 (a troll leader like him can't miss the chance to assault the elves of Quel'Thalas) and maybe Orc14 (in ending movie you see lots of trolls ravaging the human castle, and we know Zul'Jin is their leader)

- Killrog Deadeye in xOrc12 (BOTDP) and xHuman06 (here dies, killed by Danath according to lore)

- Mogor the ogre mage in xOrc01
I think including heroes in missions like you mentioned is a very good idea.

At the moment I have added: 1. Danath to the Fall of Stromgarde mission (Orc7), since he was a member of the Stromgarde militia and thus is likely to have participated in the defense of its capital, should it have been sieged, 2. Alleria to Orc11 (The Dead Rise as Quel'thalas Falls), since it is likely that she would have participated in a defense of Quel'thalas against Orcish forces (and indeed, did do so in the novel), 3. Khadgar to Orc13 (The Siege of Dalaran), since the manual states that he traveled to Dalaran after the First War, and only returned to the Kingdom of Azeroth after the Second War, and thus if that city were to be sieged during the Second War, he would most likely be there when the Orcs arrived and 4. Turalyon to Orc10 (The Destruction of Stratholme), since Stratholme is the founding place of the order of the Knights of the Silver Hand, if the Horde had won in the conflicts in Khaz Modan and advanced to the North, it is likely that he would be defending that city.

Turalyon and Khadgar I think would be strange to include in Human14, because then there had been no prior introduction of them, and I can't change the mission briefing to take that into account, since if I change it, it would no longer fit with the mission intro audio. Uther had already been introduced by that point, however, and I think it is a very good idea to have him in that mission.

I like the idea of adding Rend and Maim to Orc12 and Human14 (Rend, for instance, is mentioned in the novel as having participated in both), but I'm not sure if there are proper icons for them. Do you think any of these would fit?
Image

The addition of Mogor presents the same issue.

I like your other suggested hero inclusions as well, specially since the reasons you gave for them are quite sound, and I will try to get that done by the next version of WIP.
And about lore/gameplay:

- Using dwarven units as footman in missions set in dwarven lands
- Add regeneration and lighter axes upgrades to Zul'Jin
- Black dragons in Beyond The Dark Portal instead of green
My understanding is that the soldiers who partook in the liberation of Khaz Modan were mostly human, so it seems to me that it makes more sense if the advancing human troops in the Khaz Modan missions of the human campaign train footmen. Nevertheless, I think it would be a good idea if the starting units were a mix of human footmen and dwarven axefighters.

I hadn't realized that Zul'jin doesn't get those upgrades, I'll look into that.

Having black dragons for the BtDP campaign is a rather nice idea, but it would need graphic alterations.
b_o wrote:I like kargaths ideas. The WIP is looking good too.
Thanks!
A couple of other things that could be fixed are that the palette or the image seem to be messed up for some of the briefings.
Do you remember which briefings were those?
also.. in level 1 of the orcs beyond the dark portal campaign, isn't the deathknight supposed to start with touch of death?
Yes, he is. I'll correct that.
Andrettin, if you want to delegate some graphic work to further this WIP, you can let me know what you wanted to implement next, and maybe I can help with some pixel work on GFX's or something?
That would be awesome! Is there anything in particular which you would like to work with?
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b_o
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Re: WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

Postby b_o » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:36 am

The war1 human briefing, and all of the tides of darkness briefings have some problems.

I was thinking of working on the war1 dungeon tileset, but I'm not sure how I will do that yet.
I'm not sure what else you were planning on implementing. I sort of want to get greenslime, spiders, and scorpions back into the game. But if you have the starcraft mod, maybe I would help porting some of that stuff, maybe the wolfriders. I can possibly add shadows or something where they are missing, or create missing frames, etc.
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Kargath
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Re: WIP - Wargus Improvement Project

Postby Kargath » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:07 am

Spiders and scorpions are in Weapons of our warfare if I'm not mistaken.

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